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Green Energy Girds For Dark Times As Subsidies Expire

ibd -- After a three-year boom, the outlook for wind, solar and other renewable energy companies has turned sharply negative. The tax credits, grants, loans and other subsidies that sparked the growth of these technologies are shrinking fast. It has been called a "subsidy cliff." The question now is who will fall and who will fly.

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Submitted Apr 28, 2012 By: jbob357

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drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:750,035 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 11:07:50 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Backwards baltimore, it's right there in the article!
eromitlab Champion Author Huntsville Posts:7,311 Points:1,451,160 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 1:14:01 AM Ignore eromitlab Report Abuse And you can provide a citation for that, right johntxx?
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:750,035 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 12:52:10 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Or johntxx you could put it like this, if you had a million dollars you could spend $3000 per day for a year before running out. A billion dollars and you could spend $3000 per day for 100 years.
johntxx Champion Author Texas Posts:2,766 Points:613,395 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 11:28:26 PM Ignore johntxx Report Abuse Sometimes it's just easy to talk about billions or trillions of dollars, but it's a little different when you see it with all the zeros. Obama spent $110,000,000,000 from '09 to '11 on green energy. That's equal to $110,000 times 1,000,000. Change your perspective on how absurd this amount really is? [Edited by: johntxx at 4/29/2012 11:31:13 PM EST]
bwatchingu Champion Author Arkansas Posts:1,735 Points:598,795 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 10:54:19 AM Ignore bwatchingu Report Abuse interesting
Piper0072 All-Star Author Rochester Posts:906 Points:378,955 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 10:00:43 AM Ignore Piper0072 Report Abuse It's time to end all subsidies. The country can't afford them and most are politically driven wastes of money.
abacus44 Champion Author Toms River Posts:3,465 Points:745,565 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 2:59:34 AM Ignore abacus44 Report Abuse Bye bye subsidies!
CVA19 Champion Author Salem Posts:2,393 Points:606,850 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 12:40:41 AM Ignore CVA19 Report Abuse Welcome to the real world, "greenies"... the one where you have to pay your own way, and if you can't... well, see ya later.
carranco Champion Author Georgia Posts:1,027 Points:267,390 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:17:43 PM Ignore carranco Report Abuse The only thing that needs a taxpayer assist is to do what it takes to get natural gas into the transportation fleet and imported oil out of it.
aquarinut Champion Author British Columbia Posts:1,628 Points:436,005 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:23:08 PM Ignore aquarinut Report Abuse After getting $110 BILLION... yes Billion, with a capital "B"... and they still can't make a go of it???? Time to stop flogging this dead horse, or should it be, stop feeding the coffers of BO's friends???
bigmoo63 Champion Author Kalamazoo Posts:1,275 Points:83,105 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 6:14:53 PM Ignore bigmoo63 Report Abuse Watch Barry and Chu waste some more cash on this albatross.
ktbaeohana Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:2,296 Points:420,700 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 5:17:32 PM Ignore ktbaeohana Report Abuse watch and see.
fullcirclethink Champion Author Washington Posts:2,006 Points:159,100 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 5:07:34 PM Ignore fullcirclethink Report Abuse Proof positive that, apart from government 'benevolence' (at taxpayer expense), there is no free lunch! And, it also shows that 'green energy' so-called isn't anywhere near the answer to our energy problems. So, what have we learned here children? Those in positions of leadership authorized to confiscate your hard earned dollars and dole them out to their pet projects really don't know what is best for those of us living in fly over country after all!! Nobama 2012!! (And, out with his Czars as well!!)
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,832 Points:731,965 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 3:27:33 PM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse Not quite so much, maybe. In my area, the "subsidy cliff" already happened, but it hardly changed anyone's thinking in the long run. In my own case, higher prices got me going looking for any sort of alternatives in the first place in 2005, and I installed the first solar air heater around after a LOT of waffeling. Its paid back its cost long ago--two years flat, in fact, and made my marginal old house somewhat livable in winter what previously throwing 4 full tanks of heating oil up the chimney couldn't do. I was literally just about the first person ten miles in any direction to install anything alternative. Some locals asked me how it worked, what I thought of the company etc, and slowly a few more solar air heaters went up, then some people added little wind turbines, or solar hot water panels, and some even put solar PV electricity generating panels. Now most new homes in the area have something added, and even the older homes are retrofitting something. Seeing others do it, helps people to think about it. Out of sight, out of mind. Figuring out is actually saves them money is the last step, not the first. The best use of subsidies is to get a producer going through the initial startup phase, or to convince a few wavering first buyers to give something a try by lowering the cost, and making slightly less of a gamble. After that, its money wasted because a) either it starts making sense when people start bringing out their calculators and thinking for themselves--or b) it doesn't make sense to them financially no matter how and how long they look at it. My calculator confirms it all makes fantastic financial sense, without any subsidies whatsoever--be it solar air heating, solar hot water system, or LED house lighting. And I know I'm saving money--how else would I have monthly cash to invest in more solar water and even solar electric soon?
TomT2Lee Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:5,352 Points:1,595,505 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 3:22:25 PM Ignore TomT2Lee Report Abuse How shocking, that alternative energy can not stand on its own without huge piles of tax payer money!
heydano67 Champion Author California Posts:1,651 Points:355,410 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 3:16:28 PM Ignore heydano67 Report Abuse I hope those who took advantage of the deals are reaping the current benefits.
dh0770 Champion Author Colorado Posts:6,987 Points:672,460 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 2:50:37 PM Ignore dh0770 Report Abuse Now what's Obama going to use as an excuse for his 1.7 Trillion deficit for this year, not to mention his 4.7 Trillion in deficits for his first three years! BTW, he added more to the deficit in three years than Bush did in eight!
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,101 Points:2,368,445 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 2:14:07 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse green energy sure has changed greece and spain sent them right down the crapper just like obama's plan for america...............abo 2012..............
doggod Champion Author Anchorage Posts:2,833 Points:738,435 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 2:06:54 PM Ignore doggod Report Abuse Now the marketplace can go to work and clean up this mess made by politicians. Or, more likely, they'll find a way to get back in and make it worse.
Luckylindy Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,499 Points:1,124,145 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 1:20:42 PM Ignore Luckylindy Report Abuse So much for Odummers green jobs that never appeared.
Rockyguitar Champion Author Tampa Posts:2,552 Points:1,199,745 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 1:06:43 PM Ignore Rockyguitar Report Abuse NO MORE SUBSIDIES!!! Let the market work.
dorisntx Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:2,079 Points:643,605 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 12:53:57 PM Ignore dorisntx Report Abuse ok
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:750,035 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 12:36:04 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse 'Green' energy should be able to stand alone on the same tax code that applies to all industry in the US. The true subsidies, direct payments from the government like grants and loans, should be eliminated now. Oil, gas, coal and 'green' companies should be able to stand on their own with the current tax deductions. The disparity this article points out "Why are things suddenly so dark for an industry that, according to the "Boom & Bust" report, received $110 billion in federal support from 2009 through 2011?", compared to the pittance that all fossil fuel gets in tax deductions. This certainly points out the hypocrisy of those want to moan about $2.5 Billion per year in deductions for oil, gas and coal (which provides over 70% of our energy) and not say a word about $36+ Billion per year (2009-2011) that 'green' receives in BOTH tax deductions and true subsidization from the government and contributes only a small percentage to our energy needs.
md11capt Champion Author Denver Posts:3,553 Points:708,155 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 12:27:06 PM Ignore md11capt Report Abuse Get rid of Corporate Welfare to the Welfare Queens of BIG OIL.
Norm10 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:3,332 Points:162,475 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 12:12:13 PM Ignore Norm10 Report Abuse Surprise! Surprise! - we should start using our cheaper natural gas as a power source!
Meowmy Champion Author Florida Posts:1,293 Points:348,105 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:55:15 AM Ignore Meowmy Report Abuse That's because they gave out subsidies to anyone who asked instead of verifying their solvency/validity beforehand.
Amplion Champion Author Oregon Posts:6,751 Points:1,862,135 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:33:20 AM Ignore Amplion Report Abuse SHUT THEM DOWN
OTISFL Champion Author Pensacola Posts:4,595 Points:862,890 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:12:27 AM Ignore OTISFL Report Abuse Totally agree with car253!!
pa79th Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,767 Points:1,213,925 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:51:17 AM Ignore pa79th Report Abuse Why are we subsidizing any energy production? Why are we subsidizing anything at all? Isn't that the role of venture capital?
leraar2 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,749 Points:784,755 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:35:36 AM Ignore leraar2 Report Abuse why always the "all or nothing" approach in our legislation? try a gradual decrease in subsidies.
johntxx Champion Author Texas Posts:2,766 Points:613,395 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:26:11 AM Ignore johntxx Report Abuse Sink or swim. "Green power skeptics say most businesses in this sector are not ready to face the market on their own. "They're basically going to disappear," said economist Benjamin Zycher, a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. "They're woefully uneconomical." Sure would have been nice for Obama to not have wasted our money ($110 billion in federal support from 2009 through 2011). [Edited by: johntxx at 4/28/2012 10:27:00 AM EST]
molebaby96 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:2,120 Points:502,820 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:21:54 AM Ignore molebaby96 Report Abuse Subsidies are a waste of taxpayer dollars and a fine example of too much governmental interference.
car253 Champion Author Ohio Posts:6,283 Points:1,466,670 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:15:33 AM Ignore car253 Report Abuse Affordable green energy without subsidies would be wanted by everyone.
hunter86 Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,373 Points:561,760 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:14:40 AM Ignore hunter86 Report Abuse As long as obummer is in office, money will flow to the green guys.
Skunk63 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:2,546 Points:555,550 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:53:02 AM Ignore Skunk63 Report Abuse Gotta stand on your own two feet sometime...
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,101 Points:2,368,445 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:38:40 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse what a shock.
52MPG Champion Author Dayton Posts:7,247 Points:1,738,780 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:28:07 AM Ignore 52MPG Report Abuse Live by the subsidies - die by the death of the subsidies.
dave27johnson Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,787 Points:405,950 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:27:50 AM Ignore dave27johnson Report Abuse This is an article from Investors business Daily about financial troubles in renewable energy. They say, "[e]ven those who see a bright future see near-term trouble." They also say: Another study this month by McKinsey Consulting sums up the long-term sunny but short-term grim outlook in its title: "Solar Power: Darkest Before Dawn." Good subsidies are designed to get us to a better future quicker by overcoming investor resistance and impatience. They aren't designed to help stable, successful companies make even more profit.
yardslave Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:2,539 Points:593,780 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:22:36 AM Ignore yardslave Report Abuse If they've made it viable, this will be no big deal.
fracknsave Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,666 Points:58,000 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:16:41 AM Ignore fracknsave Report Abuse The free market always suffers when the gub'rment comes in and tinkers with it.
GingoutMD Champion Author Maryland Posts:3,495 Points:713,305 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:13:42 AM Ignore GingoutMD Report Abuse Sooner or later one must stand on their own two feet. Now's a good time.
imcheep Champion Author New Mexico Posts:2,477 Points:646,905 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:54:28 AM Ignore imcheep Report Abuse no surprised to me!!!
SUPPER Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:2,462 Points:1,285,695 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:44:21 AM Ignore SUPPER Report Abuse Well don
powerserge Rookie Author Boston Posts:43 Points:42,375 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:38:55 AM Ignore powerserge Report Abuse not surprised
cdrrod Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:4,139 Points:780,850 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:37:21 AM Ignore cdrrod Report Abuse well, will the gas prices now finally reach $5.00/barrel by Memorial Day?
ClarkSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,063 Points:1,008,480 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:22:54 AM Ignore ClarkSC Report Abuse It's about time. Let them sink or swim.
Joeski1 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:9,979 Points:1,738,910 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:19:57 AM Ignore Joeski1 Report Abuse I agree with the 'doh'... cut ALL tax breaks and subsides to ALL energy products and then heavily tax ALL waste by-product produced by each power generation source... [Edited by: Joeski1 at 4/28/2012 8:20:53 AM EST]
doeslayersr Champion Author Illinois Posts:9,093 Points:869,080 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:17:39 AM Ignore doeslayersr Report Abuse Let these apparent boondoggles sink or swim on their own merit, not on the tax payers dime. If an idea, product or service is viable, feasible and has merit, private investment dollars will flock to it as the investors have a belief customers will purchase it.
dbecks44 Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,332 Points:429,505 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:08:14 AM Ignore dbecks44 Report Abuse Subsidies only prop up weak markets. Let them sink.
Yooperheart Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,400 Points:524,100 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 8:02:47 AM Ignore Yooperheart Report Abuse Means more companies will go out of business, and add to the growing numbers of unemployed.